Department of Energy Argonne National Laboratory Office of Science NEWTON's Homepage NEWTON's Homepage
NEWTON, Ask A Scientist!
NEWTON Home Page NEWTON Teachers Visit Our Archives Ask A Question How To Ask A Question Question of the Week Our Expert Scientists Volunteer at NEWTON! Frequently Asked Questions Referencing NEWTON About NEWTON About Ask A Scientist Education At Argonne Submarines, Pressure, and Crushing
Name: Jeremy O.
Status: other
Grade: other
Location: N/A 
Country: N/A
Date: 5/31/2005


Question:
I have a question regarding Water Pressure. All the formulas I have seen relating to Water Pressure seem to show a linear increase in atmospheric pressure the deeper one goes. (One rationalization for this is that only the water 'above' you is 'pressing down' on you.) If this is the case, why are submarines and other deep object damaged by the intense pressure as likely to be crushed from side-to-side as top-to-bottom?


Replies:
Because the water on either side of a submarine also has all the water above it pressing down on it. If it could move sideways to escape that pressure, it would. The only thing stopping it from moving sideways is the submarine.

Tim Mooney


The pressure in a non-viscous fluid at any given point is the same in all directions. The pressure must be sufficient to support the water above it. For example if you are 10 feet under water in a salty ocean where the water density is 64 lb/ft^3 (which means a cube of water one foot on a side weighs 64 pounds), the force pushing down on the top of a horizontal plate one foot square is 640 pounds. The plate, however, feels no net force since the water under it is pushing up with the same force.

Now if you turn the plate so it is vertical , there will be a force pushing on each side of the plate of 640 pounds. In fact, no matter what the angle of the plate is, there will be a force of 640 pounds on each side of the plate. This should seem reasonable to you since I am sure you would agree that water would rush into an evacuated pipe 10 feet under water regardless of the orientation of the pipe. You might want to try that by sealing the ends of a pipe with your hands and then putting it under water and taking your hands away. It might be better to take a glass tube sealed at one end and putting the open end under water. You will see that whether the tube is vertical or almost horizontal (do not let any air out of the tube), the water pressure compresses the air in the tube by the same amount. I am sure you can think of other ways to check this physics.

Best, Dick Plano,
Professor of Physics emeritus, Rutgers University


You have got both basic concepts there, but it might be a little tricky explaining how to put them together. The best way I can describe it right now is that the water around the submarine is also under the same pressure from the water above it. Since a fluid under pressure will go anyway it can to relieve the pressure, it presses against the sides and bottom of the submarine as well.

Perhaps it would be better to use an analogy of a crowded meeting hall. Everyone inside is assumed to be pushing towards the front of the hall, while trying to keep a little personal space to move around in. as you approach the front of the hall, people begin getting closer to you from all sides, not just from the direction of the entrance.

Ryan Belscamper


A good question, maybe a way to escape the idea of the weight of water from above. Think about air pressure, climb to higher levels, When you are on top of the mountain, is not the air pressure less? Does it not act from all sides? At the bottom of the ocean, is not the air still above the water? Would it not combine with the water? If the ocean was made from Jell-O instead of water, would not the pressure at the bottom be more, than at the surface? Materials are identified by their specific gravity, weights measured relative to a standard of distilled water. Inserting the word gravity gives a clue, all these pressures are related to gravity. Each material because of its molecular structure behaving differently, but all influenced by gravity.

James Przewoznik


The increase in pressure (water pressure) is very linear with depth. This is indeed because the water above is pressing down. At large depths, the water pressure on the side is almost the same as the pressure on top or the bottom. The difference is minor.

Bob Erck


The failure of a sub can come from any side. When under water, pressure is applied equally from all sides, thus a hull collapse can occur from any direction. The "direction" of the collapse is based on where the flaw is and how it is oriented. Your comment about the water above you pressing down on you is correct, but what is also pushing down on you from the top is coming from the side and the bottom. Think of it this way: you have a tall column of water that has a certain pounds per square inch near the middle of the column. If this column starts to buckle and bend to the side at this point, the column of water above the bend point is the weight pushing towards the side of the column causing it to buckle. So when you are down so many feet under water, the pressure above you is also being pushed on you from the side and the bottom.

Hope this helped. Thanks for using Newton!

Christopher Murphy, P.E.
Air Force Research Laboratory



Click here to return to the Engineering Archives

NEWTON is an electronic community for Science, Math, and Computer Science K-12 Educators, sponsored and operated by Argonne National Laboratory's Educational Programs, Andrew Skipor, Ph.D., Head of Educational Programs.

For assistance with NEWTON contact a System Operator (help@newton.dep.anl.gov), or at Argonne's Educational Programs

NEWTON AND ASK A SCIENTIST
Educational Programs
Building 360
9700 S. Cass Ave.
Argonne, Illinois
60439-4845, USA
Update: June 2012
Weclome To Newton

Argonne National Laboratory